Where do you start? Minnesota Deptartment of Natural Resources, State Agency: Alaska Department of Fish & Game, State Agency: In this blog post, we will take a look at the pros and cons of both rounds and help you decide which one is right for you! Wyoming Game & Fish Department, State Agency: When Marlin started building rifles for it, they didnt want to advertise Winchester, so they called the cartridge a .30/30. I do not like the 180-grain loads as much, although if hunting heavy-body moose or bear at moderate range, I would choose these loads. Accuracy results are the averages of four five-shot groups fired at 100 yards from a Sinclair rest. To the surprise of many, I suspect, the real power of the mighty .45/70 comes as a shock. They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. More On the Savage Super Sporter .30-30; A Winchester Model 54 in .30 WCF; The Savage Model 1920 Bolt Action Rifle in .300 Savage; Deer Ammo for the .30-30 Winchester; No. A hunter in British Columbia claimed 18 kills using a box of 20 cartridges, with two grizzlies in the count. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. In his Pet Loads article on the .300 Savage, Ken Waters (Ref. If you want something that is less expensive and has less recoil, then the 300 Savage is a great choice. This might be on account of the short neck, which requires that heavier bullets protrude into the powder space, but Ken found no significant difficulties with the cartridge in his work. It was modified and became the .308. twhiting44@gmail.com To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. So, whats the difference between these two popular cartridges? It is less expensive than the 308 Winchester and has less recoil, making it a good choice for new shooters. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. A longer cartridge would not have worked as well and demanded considerable redesign. year and re-named the Model 99. (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. It has enough power to take down a deer at long range, but it is also relatively inexpensive. slide 3 to 4 of 31. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. The .300 Savage is a rimless cartridge while the .308 Winchester is a belted magnum. ", 165 gr sierra BTSP , 38gr IMR4064, WLR primers, R-P cases,OAL 2.625, I like whatever they put in the 150 grain core-lokts. A slightly bigger case, with a 20-degree shoulder, evolved as the T-65. The biggest difference between these two calibers is their performance. (II) Limit one (1) entry per household; multiple entries will disqualify entrants. No, 300 Savage is not the same as 300 blackout. His companys vastly superior cartridge of 1920 was the .308 Winchester of its day, nearly matching the performance of a .30/06 Springfield. The .300 Savage preceded, by five years, the .300 H&H and was 25 years ahead of Weatherbys .300. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The 300 Savage is also cheaper to buy and reload than the 308 Winchester. Has given excellent accuracy in several guns over the years. A through-bolt held butt-stock to receiver more securely than did wood screws in tang extensions. I had an accurate .300 Savage 99 with a factory aperture sight. The 300 Savage was introduced in 1920 as a high-velocity, short-action round. A trim, light little sporter thats a pleasure to hunt with. My Dad (1922 -2004) hunted his entire adult life with his 300 Savage lever action rifle. If you want an affordable round that is easy to find, the 300 savage is a great choice. Contest open to U.S. residents only. Louisiana Department of Wildlife & Fisheries, State Agency: Later, in the 1950's, the .300 Savage became the basis for experiments by the US Army that resulted in the development of the (T-65) .308 Winchester cartridge. 2. Rhode Island Department of Fish & Wildlife, State Agency: 4064, CCI primer, 2.600 OAL. At 200 yards its packing about 250 f-p less kinetic energy than a 50-grain bullet from a .223 Remington at the muzzle. Kansas Department of Wildlife, Parks & Tourism, State Agency: Remington chambered it in the Model 81 . If you need a round that can be loaded into other magazines, then the 308 Winchester is the better choice. Savage instead designed a cartridge with the same case head as the .30-06this would be very important after World War IIbut with an overall length of 2.6 inches compared to the .30-06s 3.34 inches. The main difference between the two cartridges is that the 300 Savage is a rimless cartridge while the 308 Winchester is a rimmed cartridge. I've worked up a new hunting load using 40.8 grains of H4895 (MAXIMUM load = 40.9 grains of H4895) behind a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet sparked by standard Winchester primers in once-fired & "accurized" Winchester cases. Ninety-nines in .300 Savage have served me on the desert too. The company also touted the '99's accuracy, gracing its 1903 catalog with a 10-shot, 100-yard group 1-5/16 across. Most don't think of 4198 as anything but a 222 or reduced big bore powder. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. Factory loads are offered in 150 and 180 grain bullet weights. Maryland Department of Natural Resources, State Agency: Buffalo hunters used it for their deadly work, too. The latest addition to Savage's Backcountry Xtreme line of bolt-action rifles is the new 110 Timberline.Part precision gun, part mountain rifle, the Timberline is built to offer a high level of durability for tough hunting conditions while producing the same target gun accuracy that has made Savage 110 rifles popular among hunters. Introduced in 1894, the .303 is a rimmed cartridge using a true-American, .308-inch bullet, rather than the British .303's .311-inch bullet diameter. It performs almost as well as the .30-06, and in an autoloading gun like this, the action stays short and manageable. Contest void where prohibited by law. Barrel contours had letter designations A for round, B for octagonal, C for half-octagonal. Higher muzzle velocity and better velocity retention both help to put the .300 way ahead of the always-popular .30-30. Is there a goto accuracy load for the .300 Savage? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The .30-06 Springfield is central to this comparison because it not only falls between the .308 and .300 Win. Deployed military should use stateside address. One more cow glided through the gap, only her top half visible. The Model 722 was introduced in 1948 and was chambered for the .300 Savage from 1948 to 1959. i would be interested. Normal pressure and speed would be closer to 2700 fps. My Savage holds gorups at about .75moa. Savage submitted his repeater to ordnance trials but it lost to the Krag-Jorgensen bolt gun, which became the official U.S. service arm in 1892. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and what you plan to use the cartridge for. It depends on how you define best.. But is it? Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. With the now discontinued Alliant RL-12 powder, I easily achieve 2700fps with superb accuracy! With the demise of the Savage Model 99 rifle the .300 has become an orphan. Nevada Department of Wildlife, State Agency: Savage wanted a cartridge that would scoot a 150-grain bullet at about the same speed as the .30-06, but it had to be much shorter than the .30-06 if it were to work in the Model 99. Come join the discussion about hunting, fishing, survival, archery gunsmithing, optics, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The great debate between hunters and target shooters has raged on for years, with each side claiming that their choice is the more powerful round. I believe the Savage Model 99 has always been considered to be among the most accurate of lever action rifles, and its design would lead you to believe . What a sweet shooting rifle. Not that Id bought into the myth only magnums upend elk. Yes, I adore the Model 99 and in truth cant say Ive ever needed more cartridge for hunting on this continent than our first .300. This Remington model lasted until the introduction of the Model 700 in 1962. The downside of the 300 savage is that it can be difficult to find ammunition in some areas. It also blessed other rifles. PLain pistol grip stock, grooved slide handle on earlier models, checkered stocks on later. Found many for my model 722 in .300 savage. I would drop back a couple of grains and work up as this is a fairly stout load. Reloading manuals indicate good potential for the cartridge using the lighter bullets. The Largest Supplier of Firearms, Gun Parts, & Accessories Online, July 26, 2018 by Bob Campbell 19 Comments. The case capacity compared to the .30-06 limits the use of heavy bullets. I full length resize the brass and crimp the bullets in place just as I would with a load intended for use in a semi-auto. I know lever gun shooters whove introduced Cape buffalo to a stout 45-70 load and the buff were not asking for a rematch. So, handloading is the way to go. Sierra Bullets load data in .300 Savage. 2010-2022 ataleoftwothirties.com Garden View Apiaries, where the view is as sweet as the honey. In 1920 the .300 Savage appeared in the Model 1899, tweaked later that year and re-named the Model 99. The Remington 788: What To Do With A Plain Rifle, John Browning Favorites: The Winchester Models of 1885 and 1894, Precision With A Peep: Using an Aperture Sight, A Kouple of Krags: Springfield 1896 Sporter vs. Ruger No. Scopes could be mounted easily for comfortable use. While they may be similar in name, they are two different calibers. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. Connecticut Department of Energy & Environmental Protection, Kansas Department of Wildlife, Parks & Tourism, Massachusetts Division of Fisheries & Wildlife, Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, West Virginia Division of Natural Resources, Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources, South Carolina Department of Natural Resources, Rhode Island Department of Fish & Wildlife, North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission, New York Department of Environmental Conservation, Mississippi Deptartment of Wildlife, Fisheries & Parks, Minnesota Deptartment of Natural Resources, Michigan Deptartment of Natural Resources, Maine Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife, Louisiana Department of Wildlife & Fisheries, Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife Resources, Hawaii Department of Land & Natural Resources, Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission, Alabama Department of Conservation & Natural Resources. 1,096. I do like the 24-inch barrel of the 722; it should be able to take good advantage of the progressive Superformance powder. I also have two Savage 99s that are great rifles though not quite as accurate as the 722. Eagle eyes will quickly note that the neck is very short, and that is what you naturally get when you make the body of the case large enough to pack some powder punch, while keeping overall length down. Utah Division of Wildlife Resources, State Agency: My neighbors father got him a gun in the early 50s his father felt bad he got him one and not his other son. In terms of accuracy, both cartridges are very accurate. With cartridge weight between the hands, balance was unaffected by cartridge count, shown in a window. About 6,000 rifles were built between 1895 and 1899, when Savage modified the action. This means that the 300 Savage can be loaded into magazines designed for other similar cartridges, such as the 30-06 Springfield. If you are looking for a powerful round tha is accurate and easy to reload, then the 300 Savage is a great choice. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. Then antlers! Each average is based on at least eight shots. Massachusetts Division of Fisheries & Wildlife, State Agency: Theres also a Remington Model 24, .22 short next to it in the safe, for an almost 100 year old rifle it is flawless. I have shot it with 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets at 200yds and the drop was identical to my .270 Winchester shooting the 130gr Ballistic Tip. The 300 Savage has a slightly higher velocity and energy than the 308 Winchester, but the difference is not significant. 44-40 vs 30-30 Bullet: Which One is Better? To the surprise of many, I suspect, the real power of the mighty .45/70 comes as a shock. The small number of groups fired did not indicate that the Superformance was more accurate than the Winchester or Remington loads; they gave comparable results. Great old guns well made, accurate, and reliable. Once, I borrowed a 99 in Canadas far north to hunt caribou. Indeed, a survey just before WWII showed the .300 Savage was a popular elk cartridge, in ballistic step with the .30-40 Krag if not the .30-06 and clearly superior to the ubiquitous .30 W.C.F (.30-30). All entries must be received by giveaway end date. Three, 3-shot groups fired at 50 yards with Superformance ammo averaged 0.90 (1.8 Minute-of-Angle). The 308 Winchester is a bit more expensive than the 300 savage, but it is widely available. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM March 2022, P.O. I have the m760 Gamemaster Std. Velocities are the averages of 10 shots clocked 12 feet from the muzzle with a Oehler Model 33 chronograph. . My Model 99 is my most accurate .300 Savage by far. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Here is a famous buffalo cartridge, a massive, wide, 300-grain powerhouse of a bullet yet it doesnt even match the punch of a little .30/30 at 100 yards. Definitely my go to powder! It was designed to provide better external ballistics and terminal performance than traditional pistol cartridges when fired through a short-barreled rifle or carbine platform. Superformance uses progressive propellants that take your favorite V-MAX, NTX, SST, CX, and InterLock, bullets to levels of . New York Department of Environmental Conservation, State Agency: Every" of the Impulse rifle encompasses breakthrough technology for repeat accuracy and enhanced safety. While .300 Savage brass is much more difficult to come by, all of the components used in the .308 Winchester may be used in the .300 Savage. To get to the bottom of this argument, we need to understand the difference between these two cartridges. I cant bring myself to put a scope on my oldest 99 those open Buckhorn sights are classic. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The .300 Savage (above, left) falls far shy of the .30-06 in case capacity but the velocity difference is only 350 fps. Not to be outdone, Winchester released its Browning-designed M1895 lever-action with a vertical-stacked magazine. Whichever one flattened your quarry most dramatically was the tool you used. I've killed deer with the .300 Savage, .308 Win, 30-06, and if their is a difference in killing power, I have not detected it to date. One new load for an old cartridge probably does not constitute a rebirth. But there is deeper water here so hang on while I dip my big toe in the fascinating stream of American firearms history, usage, and marketing. The result was a cartridge nearly as powerful as the .30-06. So, which round is more powerful? The combination of good performance on medium game (Ref. The bull stopped behind a fir. A little shooting and a few hand loads, I'll put that Boy and his rifle up against the best of them. The 300 Savage has slightly better trajectory thanks to its higher velocity, but the difference is not significant. The flat nose became the round nose, became the spire point, became the boat-tailed spire point. Two reasons: they almost always chamber it in a fully modern, strong action in which they can safely load heavier 405- to 500-grain bullets as fast as 1,600 fps to churn up 2,400 to 2,800 f-p muzzle energy. Contest void where prohibited by law. The rifle is plenty accurate to 200 yards for use against thin-skinned game. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Now I want to say right out of the gate that my title probably overstates the case. Whichever one you choose, make sure to practice with it before taking it out into the field. Remington chambered its Model 760 Gamemaster pump in I have found that proper feed and function in this high power lever action demands this extra care compared to a bolt-action rifle. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. The old 300 Savage 99 was grand dads gun. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM February 2023, P.O. Accuracy at 100,200, and 300 yards with a 9 Tscott, I find the ballistics on the 150gr are considerably better and do just as much damage to the deer that I have shot ( 8 deer, 3 with 180grain and 5 with 150gr) I would like to know what I should expect for accuracy at , 100, 200, and 300 yards BTW, I have a 3x9 busnell on it. Bullet choice has a noticeable effect on terminal performance and generally speaking, soft jacketed bullets produce the fastest kills on light or lean bodied game. 8th Edition, Hornady Manufacturing Co., Grand Island, Nebraska, 2010. p. 471. Giveaway prizes may have evidence of being test fired or exhibit minor handling marks. That is over 90 years ago, math fans. A spool magazine held eight cartridges. But if you can find a used M99 Savage in 300 Savage, youll not only be set for the close shots, but have additional reach for 200 and 250. Muzzle energy is about 2,000 f-p. Arthur Savage was not only ahead of his time in 1895 and still is today. Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. Its bullet energy levels look rather puny, but the momentum of a 300- to 500-grain bullet suggests its going to penetrate like a pile driver. Master Mason, Porter Lodge #284, 10th Masonic District. Mag. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. Tests demonstrate that even bullets which have no crimp groove will shoot more accurately. The .30/30 Winchester falls in the middle. Evaluation of guns and loads for vintage 30-caliber cartridges. All articles and posts remain the property of the Vermont Fish & Wildlife Department, State Agency: $34.95. The .308 Winchester really filled the bill when it came on the sporting scene in the 1950s, and more recently there has been an orgy of short cartridges, short magnums and even Super Short magnums in .30 and other calibers. Has an F so from what Ive looked up its a 1954 I never have fired it! The short neck, itself, should present no real problems with good dies and careful technique. . All were dropped in 1919. I understand that 250 yards is pretty much max distance for shooting at a deer with this calibre. No purchase necessary. Lovedit, Now back 2 .300. Suddenly, charitably, elk emerged in a grassy slip between hogbacks. Hand loading is the way to go as I have some loads that will deliever 3.5 inch groups at 200 yards.including a 135 grain that pushes 2900 FPS and is perfect as a deer and varmet round. At present, the ammunition shortage has abated, and we can order all the .300 Savage we desire. The Hornady Superformance load makes it the approximate equal of the .308 Win. The Savage M20 was the first American factory bolt action and was perfectly sized to the .250 and .300 Savageand chambered only to those two cartridges. .30 caliber is a general term that can refer to any number of cartridges including the 300 Blackout, but also the much older .30-06 Springfield and .308 Winchester cartridges. Prizes will not be awarded if illegal in jurisdiction of winners. The .300 Savage (left) was originally designed to duplicate the velocities of 1920s-era .30-06 (right) military loads utilizing 150-grain bullets. Purchase A PDF Download Of The GUNS Magazine June 2021 Issue Now! Muzzle energy is around 2,200 foot-pounds for the faster load in strong, modern actions. 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The round nose, became the boat-tailed spire point our site, may! To levels of in 1920 the.300 H & H and was chambered for the.300 Savage appeared in Model!