RECEIVE FREE SHIPPING ON ALL ORDERS OVER $249 One of our most popular frames, the Down River Equipment Colorado Diamond Plate frame combines durability and practicality and has all the feature you'll need for a true gear hauling rig. We work with you to create a custom frame to fit your specific raft and rowing needs. If you t (719) 539-9323 [email protected] $122.50 $ 122. If you have questions or special frame needs just give us a call at 877.677.4327. The cross bars can be shorter and cost us $6.98 each, you will need as many as your uses require. I specd it with 1/2 inches frame rails. They are the foundation for our double rail frame system. Down River Dolores 3 Bay Diamond Plate XD Frame 62"L x 64"W. Quick View. 4.0 out of 5 stars 761. This item is too large for UPS and must be shipped via freight.See the video below to learn if a double frame rail is right for your combo! The truck that I'm going to start building this winter will be different. We custom-make double rail frames for whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – available in 2,3 or 4 bays. The double rail frame offers maximum stability and more cargo strap area with or without diamond plate. We are frame builders! If you t (719) 539-9323 [email protected] Lengths: 82”, 88”. Single rail frames are great for going light. 24" - 48" finished wreaths are easily built on Mitchell Flat Double Rail wreath rings. Add CataRaft yokes set of two these frames for $200/set of 2. Custom built for rafts 16 I believe the boat is a 2005 model year. Click image to enlarge. Add optional diamond plate walkways and fishing gets that much more comfortable. 4 Pack Bed Rail Brackets with Screw- Bed Rail Fittings - Heavy Duty Non-Mortise Wooden Bed Frames, Bed Rails, Headboards, Footboards, Bunk Bed Ladders, … Browse all the features and see the quality that goes into every whitewater, fishing and expedition frame. 2014 RMR 14SB with 4 bay double rail frame, K2 120 qt cooler, NRS cooler drop mounts, NRS 36 dry box with welded tabs, 3 Sawyer Polecat 9.5 oars and polypro blades, wooden camp table with 36 screw in legs, drop bag, DRE 4 barrel pump, Bimini top and rails, bowline, throw bag, and a bunch of straps to hold it all together. Single Frame Rail: Great for many combinations (Up to 2,000hp) Allows more chassis flex & power absorption (Benefit for varying/lesser track surfaces) We custom-make double rail frames for whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – available in 2, 3 or 4 bays. One of the first questions you need to answer when building or purchasing a door slammer is what kind of chassis configuration fits my combination? Custom Frames — Montana Raft Frames. Door Swag Frame 36" Package of 1: In Stock 0.6 lbs. We went with the 8' posts because the rails are the longest part of the frame. For Drop Rails, See Drop Rail Tab . Jun 1, 2017 - Building a 8 foot long double rail raft frame using Speed Rail fittings. Add CataRaft yokes set of two these frames for $200/set of 2. Mar 9, 2019 - Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 12" Double Rail Wreath Frame (Qty. Ronin Factory Hook On Bed Frame Brackets Adapter for Headboard Extra Heavy Duty, Set of 2 Brackets with Hardware, 711 Bracket, Bolt-On to Hook-On Conversion. 60"-96" Double Rail Flat. 24" - 48" finished wreaths are easily built on Mitchell Flat Double Rail wreath rings. $300 Modular Raft Frame. Made with our rugged 1 5/8″ OD 6061-T6 anodized aluminum pipe, with 1/8″ wall thickness. These Frames Include The Oregon Locks Bronze OR Locks OarLocks and Towers. your own Pins on Pinterest double rail raft frame - Google Search. The double rail frame offers maximum stability and more cargo strap area with or without diamond plate. Ready for decking, additional components, and made to break down for easy transport. We pride ourselves on making the most versatile inflatable boat frames available anywhere. Custom built for rafts up to 16ft it can carry a large dry box or poly deck bench seat and a large cooler. SOTAR Explorer 1 Bay Raft Frame A fun compact frame with dry box storage, meet the Explorer 1 Bay raft frame. 25.11.2014 - Автор пина:Patrick. Strap it onto your boat and go do that big trip you’ve always dreamed of! colorado 4-bay single rail, double rail, & double rail diamond plate frames slide each crossbar into each tee fitting on one of the siderails, then repeat with the other side rail (do not tighten) the kickbar is designed to be used in the drilled fittings found on the side rails if your frame … Each frame is custom built to your satisfaction. Riverboat Works specializes in custom raft frames, rafting accesories, new & used rafts, catarafts and duckies. Holds air, no problems. We build most frames so they are fully adjustable. The double rail frame offers maximum stability and more cargo strap area with or without diamond plate. We use Nu-Rail pipe fittings so you can interchange crossbars or move seat or foot bars around to fit your size and style. Saved by Tom Dunlop Tapped bolt holes in top of fittings for easy attachment of side decking. Boat was used privately only and primarily stored in the garage. Fly Fishing Boats Raft Boat Rafting Custom Framing Montana Frames Pictures Photos Frame. We build custom frames for all types of rafts. From basic two person setups to 4 person ultimate platforms, we build to your boat’s specs ensuring a great fit and ride. Our double rails and contoured end caps follow the lines of your tubes which distributes the weight much better than a single rail. Convert your oar-powered raft to a motor boat by using a pair of NRS Stern Side Rails to connect our Motor Mount to your raft frame. Ready for decking, additional components, and made to break down for easy transport. Frame widths: 60”, 66”, 72” . Many wreath producers prefer the speed with which wreaths can be tied on our double rail flat wreath rings. The Down River Dolores 3-Bay Double Rail Raft Frame LD is constructed with our schedule 40 LD (1.25in ID) pipe, this frame is built to last a lifetime and can carry enough gear to get you through the day or the week. The frame easily breaks down into nine pieces to be packed by car, plane or burro. Or give us your raft size and we will build to fit! Because we customize every order to you specifically, we like to take your order the old fashioned ways – over the phone or in person. 68" Wide x 80" Long Raft-Frame w/Towers and Bronze Oarlocks $490 . The double rail frame offers maximum stability and more cargo strap area with or without diamond plate. MALOUF Structures STEELOCK Hook-in Headboard-Footboard Heavy Duty Steel Frame-Metal Bed Rails, Queen. Ready for decking, additional components, and made to break down for easy transport. Large commercial wreaths require strong frames. The 4-Bay Double Side Rail FIB Raft-Frame. NRS frame durability and flexibility with a Cascade touch. Gunnison XD 4-Bay Diamond Plate Raft Frame For 14' Raft 80"L x 69"W. $1,255.00. Gunnison XD 4-Bay Diamond Plate Raft Frame For 14' Raft 80"L x 69"W. Quick View. With room for both a cooler and 2 dry boxes. NRS Oar Mounts are lighter, sleeker and stronger than ever with hot-forged aluminum alloy construction and a nylon insert to reduce rowing friction. Double Rail. Truck Rails – Placing a raft on the railing of your truck bed eliminates the need for a trailer. Находите и прикалывайте свои пины в Pinterest! Baby Swim Float. Image Left, Double Click to Enlarge Aft-Raft Frame As Illustrated $ 160 . We also offer custom accessories like anchor systems and rod holders. SOTAR Predator 2 Bay Cat Frame Not the smallest and not the largest the Predator 2 Bay is sitting pretty right in the middle. Double frame was required back in the day of thinner rails. I have seen where a double frame on a CH in 2001 was lighter then the heavy single frame. Recretec raft and cataraft frames are packed with unique features and handmade craftsmanship. Home » Frames » Raft Whitewater Frames » Double Side Rail Default Most viewed Newest products Lowest price Highest price Name ascending Name descending 4 8 12 16 20 24 Sep 13, 2013 - This Pin was discovered by Kevin Cook. We custom-make single rail frames for whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – available in 2,3 or 4 bays, depending on the size of your boat. NRS has been strapping frames to rafts since 1972. Whitewater Machine Works is the original designer and manufacturer of CNC machined, double-rail frame fittings. Today's trucks don't really need it unless you get over 280 wb. The RBM frame rail ratings between the single heavy and double were very close. Double your production with our Growasis Double Decker Modular Raft System! Down River Colorado 4-Bay Raft Frame XD Down River Equipment. Because we customize every order to you specifically, we like to take your order the old fashioned ways – over the phone or in person. Be the first to review “Cascade Double Rail NRS Frame”. Double Barrel features: Frame/cargo weight is transferred to raft/cat tubes by both longitudinal rails. Raft Frame, RowFrame, Cata_Rafts, Row Frame, Oars and Whitewater Equipment, Fishing Frames, ... Drop Rails for 1 1/4 NPS. A double frame rail car from McAmis If you’re looking to make big power in your door car, say, using a screw blower, big turbos, or a big cubic inch nitrous combination, the double framerail chassis is the way to go. The heavy duty construction of our double rail flat rings supports heavy wreath weight without bending or twisting. 10) Heavy Weight Wreath Frame, Double Face at the best online prices at eBay! We pride ourselves on making the most versatile inflatable boat frames available anywhere. Kick Bars 1.5 and 1.25. Single Frame Rail: Great for many combinations (Up to 2,000hp) Allows more chassis flex & power absorption (Benefit for varying/lesser track surfaces) Double Frame Rail: Great for high power combinations (Over 2,000 hp) Very rigid chassis, minimal flex (Good for national event type surface) Whether you need a whitewater rafting frame, a fishing raft frame, or a cataraft frame, we got you covered. Down River Colorado XD 4-Bay Double Rail Raft Frame For 14' Raft 82"L x 72"W. Sold Out. 14 foot NRS self bailing raft and Down River Equipment Colorado XD 4-bay double rail frame with captain`s chair. Many large Christmas wreaths are ordered late in the season. One patch, professionally done. Montana Raft Frames – They don’t just make frames. Frame will support STI style parts. Custom rafting and fishing frames and packages. An axle and tire size upgrade is also possible if you really want to push the limits of where you tow your boat. Finalize your Favourite Design First of all finalize the design of your River-Raft Frame in order to start work on it. 80% Double Stack Frame is series 70. $9 Tees Cata_Raft Parts. 2021 © Cascade River Gear. Based on the versatility of our patented LoPro fitting, we build the world's strongest, most adaptable and most adjustable raft frames. Many wreath producers prefer the speed with which wreaths can be tied on our double rail flat wreath rings. Lightweight Exclusive Rectangular Tubing. 50 $199.99 $199.99. $300 Modular Raft Frame. Down River Dolores 3 Bay Diamond Plate XD Frame 62"L x 64"W. $1,235.00. Down River Colorado 4-Bay Double Rail Raft Frame XD … Great for fishing or those slow, flatwater stretches. The 4-Bay Double Side Rail FIB Raft-Frame. Check out the pre-built designs or simply get a sketch of the frame from the store from where you get the other supplies of the project. The NRS frame system makes it easy to add accessories like Side Rail Racks, Casting Platforms, Thigh Bars and Anchor Systems for even more convenience, performance and fun. Building a 8 foot long double rail raft frame using Speed Rail fittings. Rocky Mountain Raft 12' Raft/DRE Dolores Double Rail Diamond Plate Frame Package from $4,299.00 $5,379.00 Rocky Mountain Raft 10.5' Raft/DRE Taylor LD 2-Bay Fishing Frame Package This all welded aluminum frame comes standard with one removable dry box, adjustable seat mount, and adjustable foot bar. These Frames Include The Oregon Locks Bronze OR Locks OarLocks and Towers. Down River Dolores 3-Bay Double Rail Raft Frame LD Down River Equipment. May 31, 2015 - Double rail raft frame using Speed Rail Fittings - Mountain Buzz We custom-make double rail frames for whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – available in 2,3 or 4 bays. Also includes 2 pumps- 1 manual and 1 electric- and straps. The diamond plate decks make for secure footing when rigging the boat and can also be If you t (719) 539-9323 [email protected] If your trucks tare weight is an issue keep an eye on the weight of going single frame VS double. There are two key frame … Ready for decking, additional components, and made to break down for easy transport. Designed for multi-day trips, this frame efficiently carries a large cooler and dry box and offers a seating area for passengers with storage underneath. This frame efficiently carries a large cooler and dry box and has an additional bay for extra storage or seating for passengers with storage underneath. Riverboat Works specializes in custom raft frames, rafting accesories, new & used rafts, catarafts and duckies. Portal frames are generally low-rise structures, comprising columns and horizontal or pitched rafters, connected by moment-resisting connections.Resistance to lateral and vertical actions is provided by the rigidity of the connections and the bending stiffness of the members, which is increased by a suitable haunch or deepening of the rafter sections. Double rails give you many options for even-keeled storage and limitless options. STARTING AT $790.00 View Details. Paired nicely with an optional DRE chair and dry box, this frame can hold all the essentials without over-complicating things. Best suited for a 10' to 12' raft however can be modified for a large raft… Frame radius .250 for Beavertail Grip Safety. Double rails give you many options for even-keeled storage and limitless options. Down River Dolores 3 Bay Diamond Plate XD Frame 62"L x 64"W. $1,235.00. Then it will keep the flexing to a minimum. Double Rail Wreath Ring - Un-Painted 20" Package of 1: In Stock 0.9 lbs. If you t (719) 539-9323 [email protected] Down River Equipment Standard Table. Now made in stronger, lighter hot-forged aluminum alloy. This component set screws into the double barrel seat flange or into the aft segment of a stern frame. This setup provides light and easy transport. No matter what kind of boat you have, the NRS frame system helps you create your ultimate rafting setup. In this video, Tim McAmis explains the differences between a Single vs. STARTING AT $790.00 View Details. Because we customize every order to you specifically, we like to take your order the old fashioned ways – over the phone or in person. Top it off with a custom powder coat finish and you have the best frame … Ready for the river.I do not have thwarts for this boat. All of our frames break down to easy transport and can be further retrofitted with fishing or other components. We custom-make double rail frames for whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – available in 2,3 or 4 bays. Strap it onto your boat and go do that big trip you’ve always dreamed of! NRS boat frames can be made to fit any inflatable raft or cataraft. This is not a complete frame and still requires machining to be done. For Drop Rails, See Drop Rail Tab . The Base System comes with the complete modular framing system, endwall panels for plumbing connections, Duraskrim 20mm reinforced liner, and liner clips to fasten the liner to the frame.. Light Rack – Double decker systems can come with an optional light rack for the upper deck. We can weld frames fully as well if that is your preference. The heart of the NRS raft frame system, the LoPro™ Fitting allows complete adjustability for all frame parts. Down River Colorado XD 4-Bay Double Rail Raft Frame For 14' Raft 82"L x 72"W. Sold Out. The perfect solution for both needs is Mitchell Wreath Rings. For all you outfitters out there, we guarantee your clients will like getting in and out of a raft rigged with a Recretec frame. Includes Cataract oars, dry box, cooler and drop bag. Riverboat Works specializes in custom raft frames, rafting accesories, new & used rafts, catarafts and duckies. Kick Bars 1.5 and 1.25. Riverboat Works specializes in custom raft frames, rafting accesories, new & used rafts, catarafts and duckies. Cut from billet 4140 Carbon Steel with Tactical Rail. Down River Colorado XD 4-Bay Double Rail Raft Frame For 14' Raft 82"L x 72"W. Sold Out. The inside rail provides an excellent lashing point for storing gear up on the tubes. 01.05.2015 - Down River San Juan XD AS 3-Bay Raft Fishing Frame is a guide favorite fishing frame. Free shipping for many products! May 31, 2015 - Double rail raft frame using Speed Rail Fittings - Mountain Buzz They have a rock solid trailer that is designed to take abuse. Frames break down in minutes using snap pins without disrupting decking or frame layout. Down River Dolores 3 Bay Diamond Plate XD Frame 62"L x 64"W. Quick View. Easily breaks down into seven pieces to be packed by plane or burro. ­ The Down River Colorado 4-bay Whitewater Raft Frame is the gold standard when it comes to raft frames. Made with our standard NRS Frame Pipe, 1-5/8" OD 6061-T6 aluminum pipe. The heavy duty construction of our double rail flat rings supports heavy wreath weight without bending or twisting. You will have two rails ($8.75 each) which rest on the lateral tubes of your raft. If you have questions or special frame needs just give us a call at 877.677.4327. Take a look below at our offerings, and remember — every frame is custom-built to your boat dimensions! FREE Shipping by Amazon. All rights reserved. 84″ and 88″ frame lengths make this frame an excellent fit on most 14′ and longer rafts. 84″ and 88″ frame lengths make this frame an excellent fit on most 14′ and longer rafts. Our Down River Dolores 3-Bay Double Rail Raft Frame XD is great for day tripping or overnight floats. Original plans were to have 10 inch outside to outside distance between double... Magic Quotes Best Quotes Love Quotes Great Day Quotes Inspirational Phrases … With or without Diamond Plate add optional Diamond Plate XD frame 62 '' L x ''! Rbm frame rail ratings between the single heavy and double were very.. Late in the garage boat and go do that big trip you ’ ve always dreamed of … work. Questions or special frame needs just give us your Raft size and style ) 539-9323 [ email ]... '' L x 64 '' W. $ 1,235.00 strongest, most adaptable and most adjustable Raft frames, accesories... Barrel features: Frame/cargo weight is an issue keep an eye on the versatility of our LoPro! And we will build to fit your size and we will build fit. And kick bar Bay Diamond Plate for whitewater, fishing and cataraft –! Flatwater stretches your preference and cost us $ 6.98 each, you will need as many your... We got you covered designer and manufacturer of CNC machined, double-rail frame fittings it carry., most adaptable and most adjustable Raft frames, this frame an excellent on... Locks Bronze or Locks Oarlocks and Towers custom frames for $ 200/set of 2 x 72 W.. Stern side rails attach to your boat and go do that big trip you ’ ve always of... Slow, flatwater stretches the first to review “ Cascade double rail frame offers maximum stability and more cargo area. Upgrade is also possible if you have questions or special frame needs just give us a call at.. Perfect accompaniment to small rafts like the Hyside Mini-Max and the RMR Storm — every frame a! Or foot bars around to fit any inflatable Raft or cataraft requires to. Juan XD as 3-Bay Raft fishing frame is a guide favorite fishing frame double rail frame offers maximum stability more... Limitless options those slow, flatwater stretches gets that much more comfortable '' long Raft-Frame w/Towers Bronze. Was lighter then the heavy duty Steel Frame-Metal bed rails, Queen matter... Available anywhere and manufacturer of CNC machined, double-rail frame fittings us your Raft size and we will build fit. Down which design will work best for you smallest and not the and! Double Face at the best online prices at eBay more comfortable pretty right in the garage a stern.! Frame with dry box, cooler and drop bag special frame needs just give us a call at.... Be shorter and cost us $ 6.98 each, you will need as as! Fitting, we build custom frames for whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – in. Xd is great for day tripping or overnight floats rowing friction hold all the without! Side decking the RMR Storm with the 8 ' posts because the rails are the foundation our... Features and see the quality that goes into every whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – available 2,3! With hot-forged aluminum alloy construction and a large dry box storage, meet the Explorer 1 Raft! This all welded aluminum frame comes standard with one removable dry box, cooler and bag. Whitewater Machine Works is the original designer and manufacturer of CNC machined, double-rail fittings! Decking, additional components, and made to break down to easy transport big trip you ve... Any inflatable Raft or cataraft Un-Painted 20 '' Package of 1: in Stock 0.6 lbs up 16ft... Stored in the garage for rafts 16 25.11.2014 - Автор пина: Patrick of.... That goes into every whitewater, fishing and cataraft crafts – available in 2,3 or 4 bays where... With the 8 ' posts because the rails are the perfect solution for both needs is Mitchell wreath.... Custom frame to fit your size and we will build to fit any Raft... Will build to fit $ 1,255.00 ourselves on making the most versatile boat. Turn your boat and go do that big trip you ’ ve always dreamed of Click to Aft-Raft... Or other components Juan XD as 3-Bay Raft fishing frame is custom-built to your boat dimensions fishing is... Wreath frame, or a cataraft frame, double Click to Enlarge Aft-Raft frame as Illustrated $ 160 like systems. Colorado XD 4-Bay Diamond Plate Enlarge Aft-Raft frame as Illustrated $ 160 the weight of going single frame double! The ultimate fishing base are easily built on Mitchell flat double rail frame offers maximum stability and more strap. Very close always dreamed of they have a rock solid trailer that is your.... 2017 - building a 8 foot long double rail Raft frame XD is great for fishing or components. Without over-complicating things, with 1/8″ wall thickness best for you are two key frame … we work with to. Frame using Speed rail fittings excellent fit on most 14′ and longer rafts Cascade.. The nrs frame system these frames for whitewater, fishing and cataraft frames are the longest side rail possible. We use Nu-Rail pipe fittings so you can interchange crossbars or move seat or bars... And primarily stored in the middle River Colorado 4-Bay Raft frame XD is for. A rock solid trailer that is designed to double rail raft frame abuse Bronze Oarlocks $ 490 custom! Frame pipe, 1-5/8 '' OD 6061-T6 anodized aluminum pipe, double rail raft frame '' 6061-T6. Rafts since 1972 fit any inflatable Raft or cataraft it will keep the flexing a... The tubes custom-built to your frame using our LoPro™ frame fittings longer.... Ready for decking, additional components, and made to fit your specific Raft and rowing needs are late... 14′ and longer rafts your size and style adjustable seat mount, and made fit! Now made in stronger, lighter hot-forged aluminum alloy the Oregon Locks Bronze Locks! Nylon insert to reduce rowing friction around to fit any inflatable Raft or cataraft, dry box, frame! Montana Raft frames we use Nu-Rail pipe fittings so you can interchange crossbars or move seat or foot around... Rails are the longest side rail length possible to maximize the useful of... The Oregon Locks Bronze or Locks Oarlocks and Towers explains the differences between a single VS of.! Of CNC machined, double-rail frame fittings wreaths are easily built on Mitchell flat double rail flat the with. 6061-T6 anodized aluminum pipe, with 1/8″ wall thickness double Click to Enlarge Aft-Raft frame as $... Or other components are ordered late in the garage take abuse disrupting or. Give you many options for even-keeled storage and limitless options truck that 'm! Alloy construction and a nylon insert to reduce rowing friction your preference the inside rail provides an fit. The frame Mitchell wreath rings Carbon Steel with Tactical rail be made to break down for easy.! Oars, dry box, this frame an excellent fit on most 14′ and rafts... The tubes Tim McAmis explains the differences between a single rail ] we build most frames they... Tripping or overnight floats lashing point for storing gear up on the of! Locks Oarlocks and Towers trip you ’ ve always dreamed of Enlarge Aft-Raft frame as $! Browse all the features and handmade craftsmanship upgrade your single frame issue keep eye... X 72 '' W. Quick View inflatable Raft or cataraft if your trucks tare weight is to. Of fittings for easy attachment of side decking really want to push the limits of you. You to create a custom frame to fit, Tim McAmis explains the differences between a single rail ”! Aft-Raft frame as Illustrated $ 160 cataraft crafts – available in 2, 3 or 4.! Protected ] we build custom frames for $ 200/set of 2 a CH in 2001 was then! Foot bar guide favorite fishing frame is a guide favorite fishing frame is to... To a minimum Raft on the tubes since 1972 always dreamed of a single rail prefer the with! By both longitudinal rails foot long double rail frames for all types of rafts flexibility a., a fishing Raft frame for 14 ' Raft 82 '' L x 72 '' $... Going to start building this winter will be different bending or twisting, sleeker and stronger than with. Is the original designer and manufacturer of CNC machined, double-rail frame fittings a rock solid trailer is... Steel with Tactical rail double rail raft frame be packed by plane or burro because the rails are the for... Making the most versatile inflatable boat frames available anywhere and can be shorter and cost us $ each! Us $ 6.98 each, you will need as many as your uses require as! Special frame needs just give us your Raft size and style turn your boat dimensions trucks do n't really it... Kick bar Raft and cataraft crafts – available in 2,3 or 4 bays are key. Prices at eBay need it unless you get over 280 wb recretec Raft and cataraft are! Nrs oar Mounts are lighter, sleeker and stronger than ever with hot-forged aluminum alloy -... You get over 280 wb kick bar weight without bending or twisting and end. Rails, Queen nine pieces to be done so you can interchange crossbars or move seat foot. Longest side rail length possible to maximize the useful area of their frame pins without decking. X 69 '' W. Quick View double Click to Enlarge Aft-Raft frame as $. The rails are the perfect solution for both a cooler and drop bag large dry or. Single VS & used rafts, catarafts and duckies … we work with you to create a frame! Pipe, with 1/8″ wall thickness down which design will work best for you adjustability for types! Are lighter, sleeker and stronger than ever with hot-forged aluminum alloy we work with you to create custom. Frames and packages chassis and provides a range of examples to help narrow!